Alicia Wolfe (00:01.62)
Okay, have you been on a podcast before by the way? Or is this your first one? This is your first one.
Mishelle (00:04.909)
Um, no, I've been on a pod. I was on Brooks podcast. This might be like my second, maybe this is like my second or third.
Alicia Wolfe (00:07.942)
Okay, great, great. Okay, I need to listen to it.
Yay. Okay. Well, I am excited. I'm excited. It's going to be great. Okay. Well, welcome everyone to the Boldly You podcast. I'm your host, Alicia, and coach and founder of Integrate Well Coaching. And I'm so excited about my guest today. If you've listened to any of my episodes leading up to this, I have referenced this guest in almost every single episode. I am not joking. I'm her number one fan.
Mishelle (00:17.104)
Okay.
Alicia Wolfe (00:41.742)
She's been so pivotal in my own transformational journey as a friend and as a mentor and as a peer coach And I'm just so excited to be in conversation with her and expose The world to her greatness. So Mishelle Kost welcome
Mishelle (01:00.475)
Wow, thank you. So honored to be here and be a part of your story. It's been, I was just talking to you earlier about this, but just an honor to be on the other side watching your life unfold. So I love it.
Alicia Wolfe (01:12.93)
Thank you. Thank you for being in the front row of my life since day one that we connected. And actually, do I have it right that we've never met in person?
Mishelle (01:24.071)
Yeah, we have not. It's only ever been through Zoom.
Alicia Wolfe (01:25.822)
It's, I was telling my daughters today, I was set, cause I have two podcasts recordings. And they said, one's with Ashley and you've met her. And the other one's with Mishelle who you've never met. Because neither have I actually met her in person. Which is crazy how someone can be so, like influential in your life and never having met them in physical presence. It's wild.
Mishelle (01:41.543)
Isn't that crazy?
Mishelle (01:53.243)
It is wild, but I mean it transcends. Connection and energy transcends through the computer. Doesn't even matter. It's wild, actually.
Alicia Wolfe (01:58.194)
Yeah. Well, and we're so aligned on so many like values and perspectives. So let me introduce you and I know work history, we've worked retail for a million years. So yeah, we've just, we've been connected since day one. And, and I think that's why it feels like, of course we've met and been around each other and known each other for 40 years, but we actually haven't, we've never met in person.
Mishelle (02:07.194)
Even more sensory too.
Mishelle (02:16.147)
wind flanks.
Mishelle (02:20.627)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (02:26.078)
So Mishelle is a self-leadership coach and speaker and the founder of the Self-Leadership Academy. She's also a first-time mama at 40 and a sweat junkie. She owns a gym in Waco, Texas, with her husband. And Mishelle is the expert in overcoming failure. And we're going to talk a lot about that today because truly a...
a living, breathing example of overcoming failure. And so if you are someone who is crippled by failure or intimidated by failure or has a very normal fear of failure, this episode is for you. You're going to get so much out of this. So I'm excited to get into it.
Mishelle (03:16.639)
Me too.
Alicia Wolfe (03:18.198)
So Mishelle, before we start talking about, take two, Mishelle, before we start talking about failure and overcoming failure, can you tell our listeners a little bit more about what is self leadership? Because it's a term that you and I know well, but it's not widely common language. So can you explain a little bit more about what self leadership is and why it's important?
Mishelle (03:44.023)
Yes, so self leadership really comes down to it's really the practice of managing yourself. I think the most important person that we lead every day is ourselves and I know a lot of times people think, oh you have to have followers in order to be a leader and that's not necessarily true. You don't need a title, you don't need to be running a team to be a leader because you lead people every day. You lead people, you lead your families, you lead your communities, you lead your friends, you lead your spouse, you lead your children.
Alicia Wolfe (03:58.99)
Mm.
Mishelle (04:13.807)
And again, most importantly, you're leading yourself. Self leadership really comes down to three key skills. It's the skill of taking personal responsibility and being personally responsible for your actions, your thoughts, your choices, your results. It's self-awareness, it's being able to learn and understand who you are, what you're about. It's learning how to manage your emotions, which we'll talk about here in a second.
And then lastly, it's being able to lead your life through vision and goals. So Suzanne, our teacher that Alicia and I share, she always says this one phrase and it sticks with me all the time, but leaders create a future that would not otherwise exist. And that's truly what a leader is. A leader is leading their lives through a vision that has not yet been created. And that's a very key skill and component for being a self leader.
Alicia Wolfe (05:08.834)
I just got turned on. This is so amazing. I like to explain it to clients and people that it's like, it's like leading your life versus letting life lead you. And it's creating a life, being intentional and creating a life versus living a default life, which was something that Suzanne introduced to me as concept of like a default life. Like, yeah, you're gonna have a default future. Like, of course you will. And it'll probably be good.
Mishelle (05:21.839)
Exactly. It's being intentional.
Alicia Wolfe (05:38.878)
Or you can take the reins and you can create a future that doesn't yet exist and then lead that and lead yourself through that life or in that life and towards that vision or from that vision and the work that we kind of do.
Mishelle (05:51.467)
Exactly. It's being intentional with what you want to be creating in this world and then going out there and doing it Which is a hundred percent what you're doing and teaching all of us how to do so way to go Alisha
Alicia Wolfe (06:02.434)
Hmm. Thank you. And how does failure, how does failure, well, okay, what's the question I want to ask? What I want to ask is how does fear of failure hold people back from leading their lives or leading self or holding themselves personally responsible, like, and or going after the things that they want? That's the question that I want to ask. But maybe there's even something to talk about.
before that question around the concept of failure and what it means, how you define it and what it means.
Mishelle (06:38.079)
Well, yeah, so let's talk about the definition of failure because I think for me personally, I think failure is a mindset. It's a perspective that you're holding because situations and circumstances happen and you can view it as a failure or you can view it as a stepping stone or a lesson or a moment, a stepping stone or a lesson, that's all I'm gonna say about it. But failure, I think people get so wrapped up in
Alicia Wolfe (07:02.441)
Yeah.
Mishelle (07:07.091)
trying to avoid failure with all of their life that they are unwilling to go try something because of that fear, because they don't wanna be a failure, they don't wanna fail, they don't wanna look stupid, they don't wanna feel that pain. But I think once you are able to recognize that failure is part of the process, it is required for you to feel and have success. It is part of the journey, it's part of the process, and it's really not even about achieving what it is that you're trying to do. It's the...
process and the progress along the way and all of those failures and successes that you're going to experience are part of the whole journey and so I think if you can get out of that mindset of perfectionism and feeling like I Can't do it because I don't want to fail and really embrace it and say hey I am gonna make a mistake I am gonna fail and it's gonna be beautiful and I'm gonna learn so much and I can't wait for this to
experience to enrich my life, it can shift so much of your perspective and how you're experiencing your life.
Alicia Wolfe (08:10.95)
Yes, that failure is inevitable. It's almost just like once you say that and you know it and you can state that failure is going to happen, there's liberation and it almost just feels like...
I don't know, I keep visualizing, like breaking through like a brick wall that holds you back from moving forward is fear of failure. And so once you can say like, yeah, that's gonna happen. I am gonna fail. There's going to be an aspect that is, I'm not gonna get right. I'm gonna miss the boat on something or I'm gonna make an incorrect decision or I'm, you know, whatever. Then stating that, it just like, I don't know, it just presents it and then all of a sudden it makes it like.
not feel that bad because you can get ahead of it a little bit or you can sort of just acknowledge that it's part of the process.
Mishelle (08:58.075)
Right, and when you can acknowledge it as part of the process, it no longer means whatever meaning you're attaching to that particular failure. And I think that's where it can really start spiraling is what the meaning that you're putting onto that failure and how you're applying that to your life. And so, if you think too about back to the declaration that you created that really powerful declaration of just understanding that you'll know what to do when you get there, you know the failure is going to come and I am.
Alicia Wolfe (09:07.507)
Uh huh.
Alicia Wolfe (09:24.896)
Yeah.
Mishelle (09:26.859)
I'm going to know what to do and I trust that I will know what to do and what the next step is.
Alicia Wolfe (09:31.314)
Yeah. And that it's like failure isn't the end. Right. It's like if you fail at something, it doesn't mean, well, it's over. You know, like I'm about to open this co-working movement studio here in the jungle. And I have to be honest with myself, even though it is scary to say there are going to be aspects of this that we fail at. We might not. And maybe it's even an act of like presencing those failures. Like what are those failures? Like what could we almost predict them to be?
Because then when you write them down and you can really kind of state what they are, they don't seem so scary because then you can almost not plan to avoid it, but just know that you're going to be able to work through whatever could happen. And that it's not an end. It's not like, Oh, if we don't get, I don't know, enough members signed up by X date, that's the end. And we're just going to throw in the towel for, for La Colectiva, right? No. Then we'll pivot, then we'll do something different. Then we'll try something else. And
Even saying that is just very comforting for me right now as I'm getting ready to open this business, which is such an act of vulnerability and uncertainty, but I feel so called to do it because it's so purpose-driven and knowing that the failure, a failure, a single failure, doesn't mean that the thing is over.
Mishelle (10:33.828)
Exactly.
Mishelle (10:50.475)
Exactly. I think failure, if you can really grasp that mindset that failure isn't the end, but the actual beginning, a genesis of something new, think about how you could approach all your life circumstances with that one single mindset.
Alicia Wolfe (10:59.508)
Mm.
Alicia Wolfe (11:07.438)
Yeah, yeah, it's so liberating. Mishelle, tell, because I don't even think I know all of this. I'd love to hear your story of failure and why you feel so passionate about sharing this with your clients and my listeners and the world. What is your personal connection to overcoming failure?
Mishelle (11:32.007)
Okay, I love the story because I love failure. I really truly do feel like when I went back to think about what am I an expert at? What can I actually teach? Like what is my expertise? And it just came to me one day as I'm an expert in failure, duh. I fail at everything.
or I have failed at a lot of things. And I'm okay with that. And it has taken me a very long journey into myself to get to that place of freedom. So like my story starts just from all the way from the beginning. I think you're gonna be able to see some video here, but obviously I am second generation Korean American and I just look different. And so I spent
probably 20 to 25 years of my life trying to fit in and be someone different because I just did not want to look like this. I wanted to look like you and everybody else that was around me. And so I spent a good portion of my life in that state of I just want to be somebody else. I didn't want to be who I was. And so if you can imagine living your life that way.
Alicia Wolfe (12:36.597)
Yeah.
Mishelle (12:52.595)
and the choices that you make when you're not aligned with who you are at all in any sense of the word. And then you couple that with people pleasing and wanting to feel love through making other people happy because there was no self-love at that point for myself coming from my internal guide. So then it was, well, I'll just do everything that everybody else wants me to do because then they'll be happy and then I'll feel love. And so...
Alicia Wolfe (12:57.503)
Uh-huh.
Mishelle (13:19.775)
What happened in that process was I got so lost. I didn't even know who I was. And one day I woke up, I was married, owning two businesses. I was 28 at this point, and I just realized that this is not the life that I wanna be living. And actually I was miserable. I was so miserable. I was crying every single day. I was in the darkest place of my life.
Alicia Wolfe (13:41.816)
Wow.
Mishelle (13:47.851)
And I decided at that point as a really scary moment to walk away from it all and start over. And I had no money and I had no place to live and I had no job and I had to deal with the shame and guilt that came alongside this feeling of failing in my marriage.
because again, as a second generation Korean American, it was very much ingrained in me my entire life that my main purpose is to get married, have a family, and to be a good wife. Like those were my pillars of success. Like that's how success was defined for me. And so when the marriage failed, it wasn't that I just failed at my marriage. I had failed as a daughter, as a...
Alicia Wolfe (14:25.634)
Bye.
Mishelle (14:39.787)
Christian woman as a Korean woman. I mean it was on multiple levels and then on top of that it was just this guilt of all of these feelings of I Didn't live up to everyone's expectations and I hurt so many people along the way So I just woke up in this misery and I had and I really truly thought at that age at 28 years old that my life Was over which is wild to think about now
Alicia Wolfe (15:06.702)
That's right. Yeah.
Mishelle (15:08.647)
You know, thinking at 28, my life was over. Ha ha ha. Joke's on you, sucker. You have so much life to live. I had no idea, but at 28, I mean, I thought it was over. I didn't have it, there was nothing left. There was, well, what am I gonna do? Like, the whole world is ending. And if you can think about feeling like, you know, when you break up with your first love at 16 and you feel like your world is gonna collapse, it was that, times 20.
Alicia Wolfe (15:18.446)
Thanks for watching!
Alicia Wolfe (15:22.688)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (15:33.611)
Yeah.
Mishelle (15:37.583)
Anyways, so through that, I think at that point, I had been blaming everyone and everything about the circumstances around my life. And at one point, I just ran out of people to blame. And it was in that moment that I realized, okay, I think I need to start looking inward. Like, what's going on here and with me that I need to address some of this. And I started this path of self-development. And it was during that time,
Alicia Wolfe (15:44.61)
Mm.
Alicia Wolfe (15:57.416)
Uh-huh.
Mishelle (16:07.199)
that I got a job at Lululemon, which was an extremely transformational company for me to go work for, which at the time felt like a total downgrade because I went from owning my own two businesses to working at the mall, which you can just imagine. I remember my very first day and I was getting people fitting rooms and I couldn't feel more of like at the bottom of the barrel in that moment of like, wow, my life has.
Alicia Wolfe (16:18.086)
Mm.
Alicia Wolfe (16:22.638)
Uh-huh. Right. Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (16:33.708)
Right.
Mishelle (16:36.259)
succumb to I'm getting people fitting rooms.
Alicia Wolfe (16:39.87)
Which, you know, in like the sort of myth of the linear life of like, success, stepping stone, this is what it looks like. You grow, you get promotions, you do all these things, you keep going. That, that doesn't match that. Like that journey of yours doesn't match that. So I can imagine that sense of failure that just, yeah, that just sense of failure that you are experiencing.
Mishelle (17:04.007)
Yes. And then, but I didn't, but I've learned since that there's nothing wrong with getting people a fitting room. It's actually very, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with, and there's nothing wrong with working at the mall. And I think, and I actually love retail and it launched me into a decade plus long career into retail, which turned out to be very successful, which, which is all great and fine and dandy anyways. So I started working for Lululemon at the same time that I was, you know, journeying into myself and it was the perfect marriage or coupling because Lululemon is all about.
Alicia Wolfe (17:09.77)
No, fun. I love it. Yeah.
Mishelle (17:32.815)
transformation and self-development. And I was given so many more tools and I learned so much more about the practice of leadership and the practice of self-leadership. And I really started to begin to learn about what it looks like to be aligned in my vision, to know who I am, to have values, to make choices that are in line with that, to create a future that I never once could ever envision for myself. I don't.
I remember I sat down for a vision exercise. I think at this point I'm 30 years old. This is the very first time that I had ever sat down to think about what is it that I want out of my life at 30 years old. So it's wild.
Alicia Wolfe (18:07.291)
Uh huh.
Alicia Wolfe (18:15.114)
Yeah. It's wild. But we're not widely asked that, right? Like I did a, I just did a group coaching, like I did a vision and goals workshop here in Panama with a bunch of women. And I did the power of knowing what you want, which is an exercise around just intention setting and really asking yourself, what do you want for your life? And one of the women had a really hard time because she's like, no one's ever asked me that.
Who's ever asked me what I want to be or what I want to do or what I want to feel or what I want in my life. And, you know, we talked through it and she was able to sort of like get to a place where she could set some intention, but we're not asked that. We're told this is success. You were told this is success. Be a wife, have children, be, you know, be a good wife. That's it. That's all there is.
And or like you were running your own businesses and all of a sudden you took some sort of steps that were not laterally, you know, lateral increases and that it can feel like a failure.
Mishelle (19:21.523)
Exactly. And so I had through the process of working through all of that, it was the journey into myself and recognizing that it is a mindset. I can view this situation, the circumstance as the end, or I can see it as the beginning and I can take the lessons that I've learned and continue to grow and grow and grow and create something completely different. And so here I am now.
first time mom at 40, I'm now 41. I'm remarried to the love of my life. We own a gym together. I do, I have a coaching practice. I speak on this topic and then I just want to dedicate my life to teaching others on how to lead themselves well because I don't think I was ever given those tools. Like I said, I didn't learn until I was 30 when I was forced to.
And I think if I had some of these tools or some guidance along the way, I could have had a completely different experience. And I'm glad it worked out this way because I'm so grateful for the journey and the lessons that I've learned because without it, I don't think I ever would have discovered my purpose, my gifting, my contribution to this world. So I'm thankful for it. I embrace it.
And like I said, failure is something that I feel passionate about because I see it crippling so many young people specifically, and I just want to shout from the rooftops that it's a part of success, and you can't avoid it. So wrap your arms around that baby and give it a kiss, because it will give you all of the lessons and learnings that you need to thrive in life for the future.
Alicia Wolfe (20:51.531)
Okay.
Alicia Wolfe (21:03.35)
Thanks for watching!
Alicia Wolfe (21:10.758)
Wow, so amazing. Everything that you've shared. I will never forget. It was one of the very first calls that we were on with Suzanne. So Mishelle and I went through a year-long coaching certification with like 50 or 60 other people and our teacher Suzanne was leading. It was probably one of the very first calls and we were doing introductions or something and one
came on and shared, you know, my name is bloody blah. I'm in the middle of going through a divorce. And you could just feel the like heaviness and shame and sense of failure. And I'll never forget, Suzanne said, great, congratulations. And I just got chills again.
Mishelle (22:02.812)
I know, me too.
Alicia Wolfe (22:03.606)
Because she knows that. Suzanne was presencing this and bringing up this concept of, great, yeah, it didn't work out. That's OK. What'd you learn? And what a great place to be to be re-embarking on what's next for you and getting to rewrite your future. And I don't know. I just remember watching this student, one, Suzanne, said, great, congratulations. Just like her whole body language changed. It almost was like,
Mishelle (22:12.906)
and what a great place to be.
Alicia Wolfe (22:32.03)
400 pounds of weight and shame and guilt and failure and all of this just like shed off of her. So this idea of liberating people from this like idea of failure as something that's negative and embracing it as something that is part of success and part of life and the messiness of being human and it's all about the mindset and what you
take from a failure and what you do next with it is what matters. Like I always tell my girls, like if they, they're learning a lot about self leadership right now and managing emotions and all the things, as you could imagine, and I say, it's not about what you did, it's about what you do next. That matters. So it's okay if you pushed your sister. It's okay if you kicked the blocks over because you were mad or it's okay. If you had an outburst, it's okay. That's normal.
Well, what do you do now? It's okay, what'd you learn from that? And then what do you do now? And that's the part I think about being on the other side of failure that is very liberating for people.
Mishelle (23:42.719)
So powerful. I think it's the what do you do now. Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (23:46.878)
Yeah. So let's talk about some examples of failure that you have experienced. And I can definitely think of a few of mine. Um, but let's talk about, you know, maybe this concept of vision, maybe people, maybe let's talk about that. Cause I don't know if people even know really what that is. So let's talk about like what creating a vision is and why it's important. And then also when you fail at aspects of your vision or your goals, let's maybe like share some stories about that.
Mishelle (24:17.683)
Yeah, so a vision is really just a picture of success, far enough out in the future, usually five to 10 years, where the constraints of time and money are removed, and you can really start to just dream about what it is that your future could look like. And so you just take a moment to close your eyes and really think about your life in that chosen future.
and you bring it together in a very sensorial way. So your brain really does not register whether or not a vision, like reality versus a vision, it doesn't register. And so if you can get your vision to be vivid enough where it really truly feels like you're there, I'm standing there. For some reason in my vision, I'm always on my porch and I'm always drinking coffee and it's always in the middle of fall. So I've written a lot of visions and it always starts there.
Alicia Wolfe (25:13.395)
Yeah.
Mishelle (25:14.483)
And I think I usually I like that because I just get transported into that porch. It's fall. I'm drinking coffee and the things around me are changing, but that one thing stays the same. But yeah, your vision can shift quite a bit. I mean, I think about the amount of visions I've written. I started writing visions when I was 30. I've probably written maybe six or seven, maybe eight by now. And I think
Alicia Wolfe (25:20.145)
and
Alicia Wolfe (25:26.018)
Sure.
Alicia Wolfe (25:32.365)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (25:37.73)
Yeah.
Mishelle (25:43.347)
The beautiful thing about it is that, again, it's your chosen future of success. It's your chosen vision for success and you can change it. It can evolve because we as humans evolve. We're not always going to want the same things. I think too, people sometimes are afraid to write a vision. Cause it's like, well, what if I don't get there? Or what if I fail at this? Or what if I, I'm scared to write that down because I don't think that that's going to happen. And it's like, who cares? Put it in there.
Alicia Wolfe (26:02.77)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (26:09.654)
That's great. Yeah. Right.
Mishelle (26:11.367)
It doesn't matter. Like that's not the point. I think the most important thing is that you are journeying towards that. Because in the process, you will become someone different. I think it's about, like I said, it's about the progress you're making. And that's how you create happiness in your life. It's about progress and growth. To me, when people say they feel stuck.
Alicia Wolfe (26:36.206)
Hmm.
Mishelle (26:39.187)
the first question I ask them is about their goals. Because when their people are feeling stuck and unhappy, it's because they don't have any goals or they aren't moving forward. And so I think one thing too, I always remember Suzanne saying about loving, reading people's visions, because in those moments she can see who people are becoming. And it's so true. I mean, your vision is going to take you to a new place. And in the process, you're gonna become something different.
Alicia Wolfe (26:42.103)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (26:59.88)
Yeah.
Mishelle (27:08.935)
and it's not about the destination. I can't stress that enough. It's about showing up every day as the person who is going to be standing on that porch, drinking her coffee in whatever location I choose in a fall morning, so.
Alicia Wolfe (27:11.254)
Right. Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (27:24.042)
Right. Yeah. It's so thank you. And I love hearing you. I love hearing other people share sort of like how they define vision and like what about it is meaningful for them. I can say to everybody with absolute certainty, the first time I did a vision exercise, which was I was actually older than 30. I was 32, 33. It did not have me living at the end of the world in the jungle.
Panama, like I promise you that. It actually had me in like this like small Bavarian town in Washington and I was like cross-country skiing. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Like what matters is like what was at the core of that and what was the feeling and the I don't know. What was the feeling and the all the things that were going on around me that mattered. It wasn't the physical location or it wasn't the...
house that I was living in or whatever it was. It was all about the feeling that I was existing in that vision. And so I spent a year and a half working towards that vision before I actually realized the more authentic expression of the person I am becoming lives outside the United States. And actually, Mishelle helped me uncover that when I had written my goals. I think I shared this in episode one, but when I had written my goals
They were all about like, oh, I got to Argentina and blah, like traveling. And she was like, girl, this is like a travel itinerary. Like what do you actually want in your life? You need to pour, you, you said you need to pour some gasoline on those goals and light a match and you said it was so much love, but what you were highlighting was that they needed to be bigger and they, and that really saying that I like wanted to travel to Argentina when I was 50 or something was like not.
What I really wanted was to live outside of the United States, and I really wanted to explore life living abroad. And maybe not forever, and a future vision that I might write might have me back in the US. It all comes as we get closer and closer and clearer and clearer on the things that are important to us and the things that actually matter and the things that we want in our life, and we unlearn.
Alicia Wolfe (29:37.482)
All those things that we've been told are important, and all those things that we've been told are measures of success and what we should be doing. And like you said, journeying inward and closer to our authentic selves.
Mishelle (29:51.371)
The reason I told you to throw some gasoline on your goals, Alicia, was because you had written down your travel itinerary, but it was all things that I knew were 100% in your capabilities to do. And it was things that you were already planning on doing. And I see you were going to do that, no big deal. Duh, you're going to go do all those things. And I tell clients all the time the same thing is you don't want to write goals that are already happening.
Alicia Wolfe (30:04.914)
Yeah, I was going to do that. I was going to do that anyway. Yeah.
Mishelle (30:20.127)
You don't want to write goals that you know are going to come true or that you just want to check off on your to-do list. The whole purpose is for you to stretch into a new version of yourself. So go big on these goals. And if you can remove this fear of failure, then who cares? Just write it down because it's again, it's not about achieving it and it's not about getting there. It's about the journey along the way and who you're going to become in the process.
Alicia Wolfe (30:29.673)
Mm-hmm.
Alicia Wolfe (30:34.814)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (30:46.761)
Yeah.
Mishelle (30:49.639)
ended up moving to Panama. Imagine all of the things that would have shifted in your life and come to fruition, even if that didn't happen.
Alicia Wolfe (30:59.35)
That's right, that's right. And the perspectives that would have changed and the lessons that I would have learned and the clarity that I would have gotten along the way of that, you know? So vision is, you know, this moment in time, 10, 20, 30, however many years, you can do it even for like a month in the future if you really, you know, if you're just playing around with this concept. But the work that Mishelle and I lead is usually about 10 years in the future. And then the goals that you set.
are in relation with that vision or from that vision and in relation with the person that you are becoming in that vision. And you're right. They shouldn't be to do lists, right? Like I like to say, they should have you nodding your head and shitting your pants at the same time. You know, it's like.
Mishelle (31:45.035)
What a great analogy.
Alicia Wolfe (31:46.29)
Okay, yeah, well, I did that thing. Like, okay, like I opened a business or a retreat center in the jungle. I didn't know I was going to do that. That sounds great. You know, that's super scary. And then trusting in your ability to make that happen and not feeling like I can't set that because I don't know how I'm going to do that. Trusting that the how will come because it's rooted in what you're working towards. And it's with that vision.
that picture of success that you've created that is free of the limiting beliefs and the constraints and the, you know, the money and the, all the other things that we have now in life, it's free of those things. And it's your version of success. And the analogy I like to use that always usually lands with people is it's like a puzzle. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. And imagine if you didn't have the picture on the box of the jigsaw puzzle.
right? And you had all these pieces, it would be chaos, it would be frustrating. And you would feel stuck and you would burn out and you would have all these pieces and you'd be exhausting all this energy without knowing what it was that you're working towards and what actually matters. So your vision is like the puzzle, the picture on the box and your goals and the actions that you take are the little pieces where you can keep going back and referencing and then go down and do your thing and you keep going back and referencing and then go to place more pieces.
Mishelle (33:14.347)
that. I think that's a beautiful representation of the vision and goals process.
Alicia Wolfe (33:19.99)
So let's talk about the failures, maybe some failures that we've had to our goals that we've set or to the visions that we've written. Like not old, not old Mishelle who before age 30 and had this radical transformation, but recently, what are some goals that you've set or some things that you've tried that have failed? I can think of a few on my end.
Mishelle (33:43.227)
Yeah, okay. Well, I've been so much in a mom mode, but I do think there's many times where I have failed even just being in being a mom. First time mom, obviously at 40, I can just think through, you know, some of my goals around wanting to make sure that I am being as attentive and responsive to my daughter as possible. But there's been moments where I have faltered and messed up and
Alicia Wolfe (33:53.111)
Hmm.
Mishelle (34:11.403)
not done the right thing or made the wrong choice or have snapped at her. And I think it's, that's like one of the things that comes up for me right now just because I'm so in the throes of being a mom. But I have to remind myself that I'm learning. I'm learning and she's learning and we're learning together and she can learn by watching me learn and how I'm processing my mistakes and how I handle my own emotional state. So
That's one that comes to mind.
Alicia Wolfe (34:43.05)
Yeah. Yeah, that's so beautiful. And, and especially the part about modeling it, you know, like, and because maybe you weren't modeled that you weren't shown it's okay to mess up. It's okay to make mistakes. It's okay to fail. It's what you do next that matters. And so Aspen is in the impact of you learning that now or having learned that over the last 10 years and getting and what
levity and what possibility that will create for her and her future.
Yeah.
Mishelle (35:16.971)
Another one I can think of is surrounding my business. So obviously having to take a break after having a baby, going through postpartum, trying to integrate myself back into a work life, trying to juggle it all, do it all, and then having all of these goals surrounding my business. And
Alicia Wolfe (35:26.333)
Mm-hmm.
Mishelle (35:43.771)
realizing at one point because I was trying so hard and it wasn't working out and it just felt so draining and I was just burning out and then I realized like maybe this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing right now. Is this even what I want? Refocusing and re-centering like and reminding myself that I'm living in something that I once had on a vision board. I am a mom and that is
Alicia Wolfe (35:52.629)
Okay.
Alicia Wolfe (35:56.619)
Yeah.
Mishelle (36:13.711)
and why am I so busy trying to build this other thing? And I reminded myself not to miss out on this moment. Like remember that this picture right here, you just sitting on the couch with your dishes piled up in the sink and your floors covered in dog hair. I have five dogs, means lots of dog hair.
Alicia Wolfe (36:20.108)
Right?
Mishelle (36:37.435)
You know, that stress and then feeling like, oh, I need to, I'm running out of time. I need to hurry up and get my business going, but I can pause and I can do that later. Right now I'm here. I'm being a mom and I don't necessarily need to see all of those things that were on my business goals list as a failure. I just see them as moving the timeline back because I still want them. I'll still work towards them, but I'm going to move the timeline back.
Alicia Wolfe (36:59.647)
Yeah.
Mishelle (37:03.559)
and I'm gonna focus on the thing that I had been wanting for so long, which is motherhood.
Alicia Wolfe (37:11.722)
And every time we fail or miss a goal or a target or something that we set, it's an opportunity to ask that question. Like, what did I learn? What's actually come up for me? And, you know, what's coming up for me when I look at this goal? And yeah, I missed it. I didn't hit this financial target or I didn't have this many clients or I didn't.
whatever other go launch the podcast by the time I was supposed to, which, you know, for me was, is definitely something that I failed at. And then ask the question and get curious about why, what did I learn in the process and then reset or don't. And that's okay. Because if it, if you realize that it isn't true for you anymore, that's great. That's okay. But to not even set the goal because you're afraid of failing it, that's the failure, like to not even try.
Mishelle (38:01.097)
Yes.
Alicia Wolfe (38:10.846)
You're already failing yourself and that there's nothing to really learn from that, at least from my perspective. I don't know. Maybe if I dug a little deeper, there probably could be, but if you're not failing half your goals, you're not setting them big enough. And you taught me that Mishelle, you taught me that like, you have an opportunity to set goals bigger. And if you fail, it's okay. It's okay. If you don't.
hit that number by X date. Or it's okay if you don't live abroad. Or it's okay, it's okay. But you tried and you learned something from it.
Mishelle (38:43.207)
It's all okay. You tried. And it's all part of the process.
Alicia Wolfe (38:50.36)
That's right. Wow.
This is so good. You are an expert in overcoming failure, but I almost feel like it's not overcoming failure. Like, can we rephrase that? Like honoring failure or I don't know, it's something, cause it's not overcoming it. Because you're not trying to bypass it. You're trying to fold it into the process.
Mishelle (38:58.315)
Failure.
Mishelle (39:15.987)
I think where I'm saying overcoming is I think there's like two ways of being in my perspective. It's you're either an overcomer and you learn how to overcome your circumstances and get past them and move through them and use them as your fuel and use them as your lessons or you can choose to be a succumer and you succumb to the circumstances and you succumb to the failures and you succumb to the...
Alicia Wolfe (39:30.562)
Mm.
Mishelle (39:44.351)
the pressures and the fears and all the things that are holding you back. And so that's why I really resonate with overcoming because it's, I truly believe that I personally have chosen a life of overcoming. Things will come at me, obstacles, trials, difficult times, and I am always going to choose to overcome it.
Alicia Wolfe (40:10.653)
Hmm.
Mishelle (40:10.779)
I mean, I think for me, I just come alive within adversity. It's hard. I have to dig deep and I have to use every single self leadership tool that I have ever learned. But I love it. I love it because I know I'm learning and I know I'm growing and in that I'm happier.
Alicia Wolfe (40:16.215)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (40:23.624)
Mm-hmm.
Alicia Wolfe (40:35.106)
Let's give the listeners a tool for self leadership and managing adversity. Or, let's give the listeners a tool for self leadership, for overcoming adversity, for honoring and working through and using failure. Let's give them something to apply that they can use in their life today.
Mishelle (41:04.231)
Okay, the tool that I use the most on a daily basis is the line of choice. And that tool is simply a line and it just delineates and shows you that there's two ways of being. You're either in a reaction or you're in your choice and you are feeling your choice-based emotions. And...
In that space of choice, you're more connected to who you actually are and who you want to be. When you are in reaction, you're typically just reacting to some external thing happening. So like you said, Alicia, it's like it's what you do next. So something is the tool allows you to feel your emotions, recognize what these emotions are saying and doing and how you're experiencing them.
And then it gives you this moment to take a second and pause and say, how do I want to respond to this stimulus? If you can think about your emotions being a stimulus, whether that's worry, judgment, doubt, fear, like stimulating you, you get to choose how you want to respond to that stimulus. You can be super reactive around it, or you can be in choice around it.
Alicia Wolfe (42:08.052)
Hmm.
Alicia Wolfe (42:22.49)
Hmm.
Mishelle (42:22.795)
That's the tool is really just that. It's a tool to help you come into your awareness, come into your body, see that there's two ways of being. And if you can identify what those emotions, that stimulus, how those things show up for you, and you can recognize like, oh, I'm being worried right now. And because I'm worried, I'm acting this way. Let me change it.
Alicia Wolfe (42:49.155)
Hmm.
Mishelle (42:50.867)
So it's the process of identifying and calling it out on yourself is the first step. So it's understanding what is this, how do I respond to certain stimulus and emotions? What's my current state? And then how would I prefer to respond? What do I, what would I, what do I actually want to do? Do I really want to be yelling right now? Because maybe I am yelling and I'm pissed off and I'm annoyed. That's like my usual is I'm annoyed then I start yelling.
And then it's like a pause. Do I wanna be yelling? Why am I annoyed? What is it? And what is the incorrect belief that's playing in my head that's causing me to yell or be angry or frustrated? And then shifting that into a choice-based thought or belief that can support me in choosing to behave in the way that I actually wanna show up, which is kind, present.
Alicia Wolfe (43:30.818)
Yeah.
Mishelle (43:48.827)
loving, connected, laughing. Like what do I need in order to show up that way?
Alicia Wolfe (43:56.63)
That's right. And I think especially as it pertains to failure, the topic we're talking about today, when I think about reading a goal that I set a year ago, acknowledging that I failed it, I have two choices. I can react in judgment of myself. I can judge myself. There's all the things I did wrong. Here's why this didn't work. And I can get angry and frustrated at myself for failing at something.
Or I can know that the antidote or the choice based emotion to judgment is actually curiosity. Why didn't I miss that? Why didn't I hit that goal? Why did I miss that? Is it still true for me? Do I even want to do that goal? Or was I lacking something? Like was there a resource or something that I was missing? Or was I traveling for a year?
full time with children, you know, like that's just very present for me. And, and instead of jumping into judgment, I can just pause, power the pause and get curious and then recommit if that's correct. Um, or not, you know, but nobody wakes up and says, I choose judgment or I choose doubt or I choose worry. I want to be worried today. I want to be, you know, judgmental.
Mishelle (45:18.969)
I'm gonna judge the heck out of people today.
Alicia Wolfe (45:20.886)
I'm going to judge the heck out of myself and other people. I'm going to have to be filled with self doubt. Like I can't wait to choose that. Nobody chooses that, but it's real. And those things happen and no one is impenetrable to those reactive states. But what self leaders can do and what you are the queen of is being able to.
Alicia Wolfe (45:43.118)
pause and reframe and make a new choice. And so that's the gift we would give. Yes. So that's the tool. If you're listening right now and you're thinking, how do I use my failure for good? Or how can I even, maybe it's not even using the failure, maybe you're not even ready for that. Maybe you're just like needing to overcome the fear of failure.
Mishelle (45:48.203)
Pause, reframe, make a new choice. Yes.
Alicia Wolfe (46:11.594)
This is a tool, the line of choice is a tool that can help you.
Mishelle (46:15.283)
And just as a reminder, it's not something that you use once and you don't ever get cured of your reactivity state. I think that's like another piece is you're never gonna be perfect. We're all human. And there's no need to feel failure around your reactive state. You know, like it's gonna be part of it. We're all gonna mess up. We're all gonna have bad moments. We're all gonna have bad days. But like you said, it's what are you gonna do now?
Alicia Wolfe (46:24.906)
Right.
Alicia Wolfe (46:35.276)
Right.
Alicia Wolfe (46:39.167)
Yeah.
Mishelle (46:44.607)
What are you gonna do after? It's, you have to do it moment to moment. As they come up, you just continue to make new choices.
Alicia Wolfe (46:46.22)
Yeah.
Alicia Wolfe (46:53.942)
Yeah, it's beautiful. Thank you, Mishelle. Thank you for your vulnerability and your wisdom and your levity about this. You know, I think failure can be a heavy topic and you have the ability to make it feel light. And so I hope our guests and our right. I hope our listeners are taking that away that it doesn't have to be heavy, it can actually be light. So thank you for
everything that you offered and you shared with us. I mean, it's just always fun for me to get to connect with you anytime I can. So yeah. And thank you for, can't say enough, just playing such a huge role in my own journey of self-awareness and self leadership and transformation and all of that. Like we're not meant to go it alone. And you for sure have been in the front row since day one. I'm so glad I met you.
Mishelle (47:53.363)
You're so welcome. I'm so glad I met you too. Feeling is mutual. And I can't wait to continue to watch everything that you're doing unfold.
Alicia Wolfe (48:03.81)
Thank you. I appreciate you. Okay, I'm going to stop recording but don't hang up.
Mishelle (48:10.332)
Okay.
